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SOCRATES1

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Is Ron Paul Our Last Chance?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:07 AM EST
us, congress, campaign, fed, constitution, election, today, politics, president, gop, gingrich, 2012, south-carolina, romney, dr, libertarian, paul, ron, nomination, big-government, gold-standard, newt, individual-freedom, bill-or-rights, big-banks
By Socrates1
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Sure it's embarrassing to have stood by Newt Gingrich, thinking all of his dirty laundry had already been aired, only to find out that there might be more.  I still think he's probably the most intelligent, the most knowledgeable, and, perhaps, even the most pragmatic of all the candidates.  He's also probably the candidate best suited to navigate the highways and byways of Washington in order to get things done and, frankly, there are certainly many areas on which we agree.  The problem is, there may be too many areas on which we disagree, and I'm not sure how many more pair of dirty socks and shorts I can take.  It is from this perspective that I take yet another look at Dr. Ron Paul.

The good news, and the bad news, is that a vote for Ron Paul should not be looked at as a wasted or "protest" vote.  At the moment, he certainly has a valid chance of winning the nomination for President of the United States.  As with the other candidates that find themselves in his position, the chance of victory propels him from a man with interesting ideas to a man whose negatives, as well as positives, need to be examined.  Much has been written about Dr. Paul, not always with the most positive of spin, but there is no doubt that as the viability of his candidacy has risen, so has the rhetoric. 

On the plus side, there is no doubt that Dr. Ron Paul actually personifies the "hope and change" promised by Barrack Obama, with Paul's emphasis on changing the government by limiting it and placing his hope in empowering the individual.  His views are well known, and few would argue that he is a favorite of the establishment.  He has the experience of being in private practice as a physician, is not an attorney, and, apparently, has served his constituency well since 1997.  Of particular interest to me is, unlike every President since Ronald Reagan,  he is not affiliated with either Harvard or Yale.  This also suggests that any Supreme Court vacancies which occur during his presidency might also have the chance of being filled by someone other than an alumnus of either of those two fine educational institutions.  He has stood up to the Federal Reserve, as well as Wall Street and the Big Banks and, finally, he claims to be for individual freedoms and the rights of the individual, sometimes disputed by those who wish to retain those freedoms only for themselves and thus they, in my opinion, misunderstand and misrepresent his positions.

Now, on the negative side, one has to wonder if he is up to the job, and I mean no disrespect, and not that I think he could do a poorer job then the present occupant.  There is always a difference between giving an opinion, and making a decision and thus being one of 435 House members is much different than being one President.  Further, when one looks at his performance in the House of Representatives, one wonders how many allies he would find should he be elected.  His foreign policy outlook is a bit naive, in an area where there are few, if any, "do-overs" or "take-backs" and thus radical changes would have, whether positive or negative, radical consequences.  Similarly, it's not necessarily a question of what the goal is domestically, but rather how to move in the right direction without capsizing the ship of state.

 

Obviously my thoughts above only scratch the surface, both negatively and positively, regarding Dr. Paul's candidacy but, having said that, I find I am beginning to lean once again in his favor.  There are problems, some of which may be below the surface with unexpected results.  For example, although I am for a return to "hard" money, we must be careful that in doing so, the status quo is not simply solidified at the present level of inequity.  Similarly, an "open-border" policy might be based on libertarian principles, but a massive increase in new immigrants can only keep wages low, while benefiting those with significant assets.  The question is whether he will be used, just as the present President has been, to implement policies which others might not be able to implement because of their perceived political views.  If Dr. Paul is truly a "constitutionalist" than our saving grace may be that he can impact those areas in a positive way, but be much less able to do so in other areas.

So, is Ron Paul our last chance?  I, personally, am beginning to think so, and thus, even with my concerns regarding some of the harm he might do, I have to wonder if changing the political paradigm isn't worth it.

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  • Public Discussion (104)
Socrates1

I don't know...when it anybody but Obama....and anybody but Romney....one has to think long and hard.

  • 5 votes
Reply#1 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:07 AM EST
Ron Christman

Good spin on Ron Paul but the facts are that he is much more than a "bit naive" on foreign policy; he is completely uninformed and backwards. And his desire to control women makes him anything but a libertarian. Actually his views are borderline misogyny.

It probably wouldn't hurt for those who believe in libertarianism to wake up and try to understand the world we live in today enough to realize that their philosophy became obsolete somewhere in the 19th century.

  • 10 votes
#1.1 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:38 AM EST
Marshall James

actually as time goes on...libertarianism becomes more and more relevent...and authoritarianism is becoming obsolete....well it always has been...but the super rich want to keep us in it.

  • 6 votes
#1.2 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:18 AM EST
Linda Luke

I enjoy Ron Paul and his commitment to the constitution and his consistency. His adamant opinions on the Federal Reserve deserves respect. We can no longer afford what big government has become and cannot afford to police the world. Wars need to stop. Profits from Wars need to stop as it breaks us as a country. Freedoms need to be cherished and stood up for and we are having too many taken away. Wars on drugs and terrorism are never ending and need to be halted as not cost effective and only stand on the side of corporatism profits. It's about time the United States has it's liberty returned, as I see it we have taken away much of it.

  • 6 votes
#1.3 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:42 AM EST
BD Styers

Damn that was harsh! Misogyny? Really? How does that work?

  • 2 votes
#1.4 - Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:21 PM EST
Reply
DoctorNorm

....with Paul's emphasis on changing the government by limiting it and placing his hope in empowering the individual.

I'll believe that one when Ron Paul doesn't come out enthusiastically in favor of a Texas law requiring that prospective abortion patients to have a sonogram, regardless of their personal wishes and regardless of the advise of their physician. Yes, that great libertarian Ron Paul actually wants the government to dictate the will of the individual and the medical practices of physicians. It's one thing to be "Pro Life" but this bill goes way beyond that in government intrusion. Seems like a wee bit of ye olde hypocrisy at work here.

  • 8 votes
#2 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:02 AM EST
Marshall James

please provide a link where he voted in favor of this.

  • 6 votes
#2.1 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:24 AM EST
King Dave

Ron Paul is an isolationist. He believes closing all U.S. borders, and contact with the outside world. No commerce, no aid to allies, no civil laws, no defence of the Nation or its population. To let Bin Laden and Saddam run amok. Sounds like North Korea.

Clearly, the one wrong way to deal with the worlds aggressors, is pretend they don't exist.

  • 9 votes
#2.2 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:23 AM EST
Marshall James

king dave

please provide a link of what you stated...

  • 5 votes
#2.3 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:21 AM EST
Ed Wood

Ron Paul is an isolationist. He believes closing all U.S. borders, and contact with the outside world. No commerce, no aid to allies, no civil laws, no defence of the Nation or its population. To let Bin Laden and Saddam run amok. Sounds like North Korea.

This is patently false. He believes in interacting with the rest of the world with free trade and investment, not the threat of military force.

  • 6 votes
#2.4 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:57 PM EST
DoctorNorm

Um... exactly how does a U.S. congressman vote for a state bill? The point is that he was asked about this atrocious law and said something to the effect that it should have been the law all along.

The article in question provides the following:

"...WEST COLUMBIA, South Carolina — When GOP presidential hopeful Ron Paul was asked today about Tuesday’s federal court ruling upholding an aggressive new sonogram law in his home state of Texas, the congressman said the requirement that women seeking an abortion first get a sonogram “should always have been a Texas state position.’"

(From The Washington Post 1/12/2012: )

  • 1 vote
#2.5 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:23 AM EST
Marshall James

they already get a sonogram.

and considering the source of this report...I would like to hear it from his mouth. Considering everything is recorded nowadays......where is the tape?

is it truly what he said....or was it taken out of context??

you get me on this?

although...since women already get a sonogram before abortion..this is about doctors revealing health information that the woman can refuse to hear.

so......i need a bit more on this story....

even so....compared to other things going on in this country...bankruptcy and the collapse of our nation. endless wars....corporations controlling both parties.

this is really nothing.

  • 5 votes
#2.6 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:33 AM EST
DoctorNorm

You don't trust the Washington Post! Sorry, but I don't think Fox News or the ever-reliable NewsMax will cover this story.

The story explains what the bill is all about. Women in the U.S. are not required to have a sonogram prior to an abortion. The Texas law would require it even if they don't want it and the doctor doesn't advise it. I seem to remember the Tea Party all up in arms about the Government getting between the patient and doctor. I guess it's ok if it's a Republican government and it is a mere woman who is the patient.

Sorry that Ron Paul is hypocritical on this issue.

  • 1 vote
#2.7 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:30 PM EST
Ed Wood

Ron Paul is pro life. If you are a one issue voter and that is your issue why even bother posting on a thread like this. I think there are two important points to be made about Ron Paul's view on abortion.

1. The President of the US has virtually no power to affect abortion laws, except Supreme Court nominations. Ironically, any nominee that would be acceptable to a libertarian like Paul would likely be more sympathetic to a woman's right to choose than less.

2. Those who say Paul's views on abortion prove he is not a libertarian are wrong. Libertarians are split on this the same as the rest of the nation. There is a excellent wiki on libertarian views on abortion here. There is a completely libertarian rationale for a pro-life view and it doesn't have anything to do with taking rights from women. For the record I am not advocating any view.

  • 2 votes
#2.8 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:46 PM EST
Socrates1

Aside from being rapidly pro-abortion, what's the problem with a sonogram? It seems to me that verifying the status of the fetus is reasonable, and making sure the woman is fully informed makes perfect sense.

  • 2 votes
#2.9 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:48 PM EST
CL1

Socrates, if I may..

what's the problem with a sonogram?

I don't think it's been successfully proven, but there is concern that it is harmful to the fetus, causing schizophrenia and/or other neuroligical disorders.

  • 1 vote
#2.10 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:55 PM EST
Socrates1

As far as I know, most pregnancies involve at least one, and, if one is about to have an abortion, what does "harm to the fetus" have to do with anything?

  • 2 votes
#2.11 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:14 PM EST
CL1

I agree that if abortion is going to be performed, then it doesn't matter what is going to happen to the fetus. However, there is concern about the 'invasive' internal sonogram that is being considered in Texas. Any internal procedure is going to have risks for the mother. They should only be performed as an absolute necessity, imo.

    #2.12 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:35 PM EST
    Linda Luke

    Hopefully the state will be baring the costs of whatever they demand?

    • 1 vote
    #2.13 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:50 PM EST
    Socrates1

    CL1...not sure what you are suggesting. If you are suggesting that the problem is the possible risk to the mother, then shouldn't they be banned period? Perhaps I'm not familiar with the difference between an "invasive" sonogram and a "regular" one?

    • 1 vote
    #2.14 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:03 PM EST
    CL1

    Socrates, I was pointing out the difference between a regular exterior procedure (suggested harm to the fetus in many research papers), in comparison to what was passed (but not yet implemented) in Texas, as a major, invasive procedure that goes up into the uterus (suggested 'potential' harm to the mother --as any internal procedure comes with potential risks/complications/consequences).

      #2.15 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:11 PM EST
      Socrates1

      Sure, I didn't realize there was more than one type.

        #2.16 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:25 PM EST
        Lisafrequency

        Did the people of Texas want this sonogram law? Did they elect the reps who made this law? Did they petition for this law? These are questions that need to be asked.

        The whole point of states having laws is that the people of the state can have more control not less. The laws can reflect the values of the people in a locality. People can have a choice on a smaller scale and build their communities around their preferences. If you do not get involved in your states elections and start complaining about the laws and have not called and/or written your states reps on how you want them to vote on an issue and you get hit with a law you disagree with then obviously your opinion was not represented well enough to keep the law from passing and you did not vocal enough yourself to block the law. That is how it is supposed to be government by the people.

        Abortion should not be an issue that comes up in every federal election. I am sick of hearing people like Santorum and Gingrich spout their pro-life/pro-war rhetoric while running for president.It should be handled at the state level so people can vote with their feet if they want to.

        I wish i could move to a state that allows medical marijuana. If I could I would vote with my feet. I am working on it.

        • 2 votes
        #2.17 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:40 PM EST
        CL1

        I should add that the procedure was designed for those requesting an abortion. My first thought when I read that report, was the same as Socrates stated ---why such an invasive procedure if she's asking for an abortion? The point seemed to be that the legislation was passed to discourage abortion, I believe. Plus,..the added expense that's created? Not sure if the latter was part of the point.

        • 1 vote
        #2.18 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:45 PM EST
        Socrates1

        I agree that it is a state issue, which suggests Texas can do as it chooses.

        Not that this is the topic..but here's some info.

        Women who decline to hear information about the fetus will be required to sign a sworn affidavit that’s to be kept on file for at least seven years. Clinics and doctors that do not comply with this rule could lose their license to practice medicine in the state.

        http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/08/texas-republicans-look-to-mandate-invasive-sonogram-procedure-for-all-abortions/

        Sounds as if there is an opt-out.

          #2.19 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:55 PM EST
          CL1

          Yes. I agree, issues should be left up to the state and the voters.

            #2.20 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:57 PM EST
            Socrates1

            Although I may be mistaken on whether they still need to submit to the sonogram.

              #2.21 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:00 PM EST
              CL1

              Oh, Ok...Thank you! On the "hear" --I took that to mean that they don't have to "listen" to a report, but didn't think that affected the requirement. I'll look into it further.

              I was just following the convo that was already started; no intention to derail.

                #2.22 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:18 PM EST
                Socrates1

                No problem, I just don't want anyone reading this to make their "Paul" decision based on abortion and the Texas Law.

                  #2.23 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:34 PM EST
                  DoctorNorm

                  Does everyone miss the point here?

                  First, it is NOT a matter up to the states. This is decided law -- the Supreme Court has ruled that a woman has a Constitutional right to an abortion. Abortions are legal and can not be superseded by state law. An abortions are a medical matter to be decided by a woman and her physician.

                  The matter here is not a question of Federal vs. State. Ron Paul is allegedly a Libertarian. As I understand it, libertarians believe in personal freedom, not to be interfered with by Government, whether Federal or State. This sonogram law is FORCING a procedure on an individual and that individuals physician. Whether you approve of the legality of abortions or don't, as a libertarian you would not believe in this intrusion on the individual. Period.

                    #2.24 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:42 PM EST
                    Socrates1

                    It's not a matter of settled law, per the fact that so many oppose it. It always amazes me that no one suggests it was settled law before Roe v Wade.

                    As to your other point...it depends of whether you believe it to involve one person, or two. period.

                      #2.25 - Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:45 PM EST
                      DoctorNorm

                      When the Supreme Court rules that something is Constitutionally protected, that is the law of the land. You can try to amend the Constitution, but until that is done, the Supreme Court decision stands. Abortion, whether you approve of it or not, is Constitutionally protected.

                      Before Roe v. Wade, of course it was not settled law; that was what the decision in that case did: settle it (from the Constitutional perspective.)

                      And it whether it is one person or two is irrelevant. A Libertarian does not believe in government intervention of Constitutionally protected private decisions.

                      Arguing otherwise is downright silly.

                        #2.26 - Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:10 AM EST
                        Socrates1

                        As someone who apparently supports Roe v Wade, I find it a bit ironic that you suggest one needs to amend the Constitution for changes to be made. Recent history suggests otherwise.

                        As to the one person or two being irrelevant, and thus your claims regarding a Libertarian's beliefs are downright silly...

                          #2.27 - Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:29 AM EST
                          DoctorNorm

                          Yes. I do support Roe vs. Wade. And it is the law of the land. To say that amending the Constitution is the relief for those who feel that the Constitution is incorrect, as seen by the Supreme Court, obviously the Amendment process is the only true relief. Amendments have been passed in the past to correct perceived errors or shortcomings of the Constitution. That's the way it is done; the fact that Amending is a very difficult process to implement guarantees some level of stability to the Constitution.

                          The argument as to one person or two being involved is irrelevant to the Libertarian (as I understand it); the Libertarian believes in the primary rights of the individual, whether that be one person, two people or more. In this case, it is even more obvious. The person seeking an abortion CHOOSES her physician (as she has a right to) and therefore, it is ultimately a matter of her rights above the rights of the government, be it State or Federal.

                          Thank you.

                            #2.28 - Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:08 PM EST
                            Socrates1

                            1. I believe you are missing my point. Roe v Wade is a premier example against what you suggest. It represents twisting the Constitution in order to arrive at a desired outcome, rather than using the amendment process. Thus, in my view, anyone that supports Roe v Wade has lost the moral and legal grounds to appeal to the Constitution for protection or justification.

                            2. Here again you miss my point. We have the fetus and the mother. If you are a libertarian and believe that both require protection, there is nothing illogical regarding the stand you suggest.

                              #2.29 - Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:21 PM EST
                              DoctorNorm

                              I understand that you feel the Supreme Court "twisted" the Constitution in Roe v. Wade; I feel that activist judges like Scalia have "twisted" the Constitution more time than I care to think about (see Citizens United, Bush v. Gore, etc.) but until that decision is overridden by subsequent cases or by Constitutional Amendment, we, as American Citizens, must abide by the ruling (no matter how personally offensive). That's how it works. You are perfectly welcome by society to fight for the "rights of the fetus" if that's how you feel. But you can not merely circumvent the legal system by Government intervention, right? If the law says abortion is legal, find ways to change the law. But don't, as Libertarians, ask the Government to place undue burdens on an individual seeking a legal remedy. Don't place undue burdens on physicians by interfering with them in the practicing of their professions.

                              I don't want to get into a whole argument about "pro-life" vs. "pro-choice." That's another matter. The matter here is the place of a Libertarian suddenly agreeing with governmental interference when it suddenly suits his purposes.

                              On your other point, I did misinterpret the two people argument. I assumed you meant the patient and the physician, since I never really thought of a fetus as a person. It is funny that Libertarians like Ron and Rand Paul can argue on the basis of the rights of the fetus, yet were against Civil Rights legislation arguing against interference with the rights of a business to discriminate. Libertarianism can be confusing at times.

                                #2.30 - Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:14 PM EST
                                Socrates1

                                On the first paragraph, unfortunately you have no room to talk. Once Humpty Dumpty had the great fall, he could never be put back together again. That being said, who said anything about doing anything illegal? Certainly one is now able to circumvent the legal system by government intervention, the primary legacy of FDR, isn't that what the left has been all about for decades now?

                                I don't either, and per your comments in the third paragraph, you can see that your interpretation is completely based on....your definitions. Change those parameters and it makes perfect sense. As to your comparison....huh?

                                • 1 vote
                                #2.31 - Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:58 PM EST
                                BD Styers

                                Long thread. Old news, but RP is Pro Choice and Pro Life. How's that? He believes the rights of the fetus are important too, but woman has to make the choice not federal government. Under the circumstances it's fair to say if states implement the 'life begins at conception' statutes, the woman will have little choice, and it won't matter who is president. Murder is illegal.

                                against Civil Rights legislation arguing against interference with the rights of a business to discriminate

                                Discrimination based on ignorance is ignorant, and yes we have the right to be ignorant, but just because we can doesn't mean we should. It's not about the right to discriminate that's in the spotlight, it's the right to conduct business without government interference. Not confused, just bored with MSM attempts to cram Romney down our throats as the palooka to take the fall against their incumbent.

                                • 3 votes
                                #2.32 - Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:31 PM EST
                                CL1

                                ..it's the right to conduct business without government interference.

                                Good to remind us of that.

                                I've been thinking more about this, and sure do hope there is a way RP will be considered. I see the downfalls, but I think he would be better than 'more of the same' that we will get with Romney or Obama.

                                • 3 votes
                                #2.33 - Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:03 PM EST
                                DoctorNorm

                                ..it's the right to conduct business without government interference.

                                Good to remind us of that.

                                Unless that business is a doctor's office, apparently. Then, not so much.

                                  #2.34 - Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:01 AM EST
                                  Lisafrequency

                                  Unless that business is a doctor's office, apparently. Then, not so much.

                                  But that is not right either. I worry that government getting more involved with medical care is going against the patient/doctor relationship. To me medical care should always be guarded and private.

                                  I don't think doctors ought to be forced to treat someone or forced into doing a procedure they disagree with either.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #2.35 - Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:39 PM EST
                                  BD Styers

                                  Hey Doc, I'm not sure what that means. Perhaps you would like to expound? I choose to be responsible for my own health, and so far that's worked out pretty well. I'd like to be able to see a doctor occasionally, but for me it means I should go out and find one and get to know him/her.

                                  The last doctor I met was cool. She was a little uncomfortable doing the physical exam, but her assistant was pretty bubbly. Anyway, I went to a followup appointment, and the doc was late, and I had to go. So I told the finance lady behind the cage I had to go, and she told me to wait, the doc would be with me in a minute or two, and I said no, I was on my way to my next appointment. The finance lady sent me a bill as a no-show. Isn't that ridiculous? So I called the doc and she said it was finance, she had no control over it.

                                  That's an example of docs who are into making money more than taking care of patients. It's not a horror story, it's just how it is today. I'm not a big fan of the corp.gov.hc.sys. (or should it be gov.corp.hc.sys?)

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #2.36 - Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:39 PM EST
                                  DoctorNorm

                                  I have no idea what the last two posts have to do with the ongoing subthread. My comment was with regard to the hypocritical stance of various "Libertarians" demanding that government stay out of the decisions made by private business but have no problem with demanding that a doctor conduct a sonogram and specify what the subsequent conversation should be when that doctor views the procedure as unnecessary. That's a clear-cut government interference of the doctor/patient relationship.

                                  As for the financial decision of that doctor's office in the previous post? Well that doctor's office is creepy and Liberals, Conservatives and Libertarians can all agree on that.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #2.37 - Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:25 PM EST
                                  Marshall James

                                  since sonograms are already done before abortions...what this is doing is forcing the doctor to give all information to the patient...which they do on nearly every other procedure but abortion.

                                  that said...if you were truly concerned about the sanctity of the md/pt relationship...then you would be against medicare/medicaid as they dictate all the time what a doctor can and cant do.

                                  but then that isnt catchy enough for you is it????

                                  its ok for the government to intrude when you agree with it right?????

                                  i dont think the government should have any role whatsoever in the md/pt scenerio and believe that medicare/medicaid need to be ended.

                                  overall...I would think Ron Paul is wrong on this issue...would have to hear his explaination of it...which for some reason I cannot find anything on this.

                                  but its really the only thing I disagree with him on......and since we are all being enslaved by the corporation/government in EVERY single other area of our lives....and I know he cannot do anything as president ....It really doesnt matter.

                                  I know in my heart that he doesnt take the stance he does on abortion because he wants to be an authoritarian...he wants to protect individual rights.....it all comes down to when you think it starts.

                                  I cannot fault him for that....as I understand both sides of the abortion issue.

                                  but I cant see both sides to endless wars, policing of the world, devaluation of our dollar by the federal reserve and the fiat money system, the corporations buying politicians, authoritarian laws that take away the rights of americans...ie patriot act, NDAA..

                                  so forgive me if I am not all up in arms over this nonissue.

                                  • 3 votes
                                  #2.38 - Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:58 PM EST
                                  DoctorNorm

                                  I love it. I come on to point out an instance (and I consider it an important one) where Ron Paul doesn't come close to living up to his anti-government interference rhetoric and somehow I am to blame because I am not a Libertarian? I'm glad you understand that his stance is one to be disagreed with. But even your first sentence highlights my exact point:

                                  since sonograms are already done before abortions...what this is doing is forcing the doctor to give all information to the patient...which they do on nearly every other procedure but abortion.

                                  (boldface for emphasis). There ya go. The government FORCING a doctor to do something.

                                  I agree with Paul on his stance on US overuse of the military and our absurdly large military and military budget. I agree with Paul that the War on Drugs is ridiculous and destructive. Other than that, I am totally at odds with pretty much everything else Ron Paul.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #2.39 - Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:03 PM EST
                                  Marshall James

                                  its also a state issue.......and where technically he deviates from libertarianism....as many libertarians view the constitution as granting government too much...state governments that is.

                                  Ron Paul would be considered if you wanted to categorize him as a paleolibertarian...

                                  Paleolibertarianism is a school of thought within libertarianism founded by Murray Rothbard and Lew Rockwell, and closely associated with the Ludwig von Mises Institute. Paleolibertarianism is based on a combination of radical libertarianism in politics and cultural conservatism in social thought. The description as paleolibertarianism emphasized their identification with the tradition of the American Old Right, including Ludwig von Mises, Albert Jay Nock, and the America First movement. The paleolibertarian movement defined itself in opposition to what it saw as deviations from this tradition in the form of "left-libertarianism" and "neo-libertarianism" (which were sometimes treated as the same thing, and sometimes not). "Neo-libertarianism" was characterized as a corruption of libertarian thought by inside-the-Beltway policy think tanks which failed to offer principled opposition to the consolidation of federal power and interventionism in foreign policy; left-libertarianism was characterized as undermining the cultural foundations of liberty through a misguided egalitarianism and attacks on traditional religion and bourgeois morality. Lew Rockwell characterized paleolibertarian thought by saying:

                                  "Paleolibertarianism holds with Lord Acton that liberty is the highest political end of man, and that all forms of government intervention--economic, cultural, social, international--amount to an attack on prosperity, morals, and bourgeois civilization itself, and thus must be opposed at all levels and without compromise. It is "paleo" because of its genesis in the work of Murray N. Rothbard and his predecessors, including Ludwig von Mises, Albert Jay Nock, Garet Garrett, and the entire interwar Old Right that opposed the New Deal and favored the Old Republic of property rights, freedom of association, and radical political decentralization. Just as important, paleolibertarianism predates the politicization of libertarianism that began in the 1980s, when large institutions moved to Washington and began to use the language of liberty as part of a grab bag of "policy options." Instead of principle, the neo-libertarians give us political alliances; instead of intellectually robust ideas, they give us marketable platitudes. What's more, paleolibertarianism distinguishes itself from left-libertarianism because it has made its peace with religion as the bedrock of liberty, property, and the natural order."

                                  Paleolibertarianism is commonly distinguished by:

                                  • Disaffilation from the Vietnam War-era alliance between libertarians and the New Left
                                  • Intellectual and political alliances with paleoconservatism
                                  • Sharp opposition to war and interventionist foreign policy
                                  • Radical decentralization in politics (most paleolibertarians subscribe to some form of anarcho-capitalism)
                                  • Commitment to a Natural Law approach to libertarian theory, and intense opposition towards utilitarian approaches

                                  Prominent paleolibertarians include Murray Rothbard, Lew Rockwell, Hans-Hermann Hoppe, Thomas DiLorenzo and Joseph Sobran. Closely affiliated institutions include the Ludwig von Mises Institute and the Center for Libertarian Studies. Jonah Goldberg is one notable critic of paleolibertarianism.

                                  I suppose I could be put in this category.......well between this and anarchocapitalist.

                                  peace

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #2.40 - Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:45 PM EST
                                  DoctorNorm

                                  Nicely written, Marshall.

                                  If I had any desire to be a Libertarian, it might make a bit more sense to me. But I do not find the shades of gray within the Libertarian movement particularly compelling. I look at the movement from the outside; agreeing with some of its basic tenets but disagreeing with it as an effective societal model in any of its forms. I do, however, feel that I am entitled to take note of glaring inconsistencies of its leading proponents. The acceptance of governmental interference (whether Federal, State or local) when that interference is convenient to one's personal agenda is the dictionary definition of hypocrisy.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #2.41 - Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:56 PM EST
                                  Marshall James

                                  Ron Paul is an imperfect messenger of a perfect message. I believe him as much as I believe any other human being that I do not personally know......I cannot say that of the other candidates. I trust him at his word....

                                  that is my opinion.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #2.42 - Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:04 PM EST
                                  Lisafrequency

                                  All I have to do is look at who the media gives the most positive press to and know who the elite supports.

                                  Face it big corpo and, wall street wants Obama or, Romney.

                                  Ron Paul is going to have to get his game on to compete with the free advertisement that the other candidates get. Plus the media slams him every chance they get and asking the most irrelevant questions when they do interview him meant to slam him. Fortunately for Ron Paul he has the support of a lot of people who agree with him and understands that he stands for peace and prosperity of the individual not big corpo.

                                  It is his ideas that his supporters fight for. I am sure if someone younger and more photogenic were carrying his message the message would win hands down. It is obvious that the most people who do not like him is for superficial reasons mostly his age.

                                  This is a very interesting race IMO. I hope no matter what happens that we stay America land of the free home of the brave.

                                  • 4 votes
                                  #2.43 - Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:29 PM EST
                                  Marshall James

                                  lisa

                                  it is also his age which has given him credibility too.....saying the same thing for 30 years.

                                  I do not think the message would of caught if he was 45......he wouldnt have the record of consistency.

                                  this is the only time for Ron Paul...he may not win.....but we will damn sure let the establishment that we are here...and we are not going away.

                                  • 3 votes
                                  #2.44 - Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:03 PM EST
                                  Socrates1

                                  DoctorNorm...The point is that your point is in error, based solely on exporting your premise onto Paul, and other Libertarians.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #2.45 - Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:11 AM EST
                                  DoctorNorm

                                  DoctorNorm...The point is that your point is in error, based solely on exporting your premise onto Paul, and other Libertarians.

                                  I'm confused. How is supporting government interference NOT at odds with Libertarianism?

                                    #2.46 - Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:17 PM EST
                                    Lisafrequency

                                    this is the only time for Ron Paul...he may not win.....

                                    Well I like to think he would win. Call me blue girl cause I sure want to hold my breath. It does seem like his ideas are inspiring some people. Be patient.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #2.47 - Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:58 PM EST
                                    Socrates1

                                    Libertarians, as far as I know, still consider murder to be a crime.

                                      #2.48 - Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:09 PM EST
                                      DoctorNorm

                                      I consider murder to be a crime and I'm not a Libertarian. In fact, everyone that I can think of, other than Charles Manson, views murder to be a crime. In fact, I think that in the vast majority of jurisdictions in the United States (other than perhaps Texas and South Carolina) there are actual laws on the books defining murder to be a crime.

                                      So what does this have to do with government interference on individuals seeking a legal remedy?

                                        #2.49 - Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:00 PM EST
                                        Socrates1

                                        Sure, and thus you can see the consistency for those who believe that abortion is murder also not believing that intervention in that case is against the value system expoused by libertarians. In other words, that is your answer.

                                          #2.50 - Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:07 PM EST
                                          DoctorNorm

                                          First of all, I never realized that Abortion = Murder was a basic tenet of LIbertarianism. Perhaps you can point me in the right direction on that one.

                                          But you are saying that our society faces a problem that needs a remedy. And that remedy is government intrusion on citizens exercising their rights. So, in other words, the government should not be intruding on individual's liberty unless you happen to not like that liberty. Then intervention is perfectly ok. So if I say that not affording adequate health care is murder and therefore we should seek a single-payer health system I can still be a Libertarian? Sounds like a plan.

                                            #2.51 - Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:51 PM EST
                                            Marshall James

                                            well as Ron Paul pointed out...when in med school he was taught that when treating a pregnant woman you are caring for two, and that was what I was taught also...funny huh???

                                            that pretty much sums it up right there.

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #2.52 - Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:00 AM EST
                                            DoctorNorm

                                            Well, I now understand Libertarianism. Libertarianism is the political philosophy that government should never, never, ever interfere with the rights and liberties of the individual, unless, of course, you want it to.

                                              #2.53 - Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:04 AM EST
                                              Marshall James

                                              no it never does..unless to protect individual rights......how is this confusing for you??? seriously???

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #2.54 - Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:14 AM EST
                                              DoctorNorm

                                              Doesn't confuse me one bit. Really.

                                                #2.55 - Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:38 AM EST
                                                Marshall James

                                                I think it does.

                                                because libertarians do not believe in infringing upon the rights of others.

                                                generally the only area that there might be some infighting is abortion...and when it is considered life.

                                                funny...when a man assaults a woman...causing her to miscarry...they have been brought up on charges of murder and manslaughter.

                                                funny...when it not a person with rights.......they should be prosecuted for assault against a woman.....but nothing else...the baby dies......too bad...its nothing.

                                                but its not that way....its not consistent.

                                                and so then you believe in abortion right up until the moment of childbirth right???

                                                • 3 votes
                                                #2.56 - Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:42 AM EST
                                                Socrates1

                                                Help me here...does the good Doctor really not understand...or is he pulling our collective legs?

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #2.57 - Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:59 AM EST
                                                DoctorNorm

                                                I already posted that I understand the implications completely. What's so difficult about that?

                                                  #2.58 - Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:08 AM EST
                                                  Socrates1

                                                  Because you have yet to indicate your understanding.

                                                  The premise....a fetus is life, and thus worthy of protection.

                                                  The premise...thus abortion is murder.

                                                  The conclusion.....protecting the life of the fetus does not represent negating someone's individual rights, it is protecting them.

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  #2.59 - Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:12 AM EST
                                                  DoctorNorm

                                                  My gosh! Young women and doctors going to the electric chair for murder! Why can't we all believe that this is a good idea?

                                                    #2.60 - Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:12 AM EST
                                                    Marshall James

                                                    well since that didnt happen before...it probably wouldnt happen now.

                                                    besides hedoesnt believe in the death penalty.

                                                    he has also stated that we can never end abortions...and that all we can do is decrease them by changing our country and the morals/ideas of our country. to have people want to emulate you....that you cannot force morality through the threat of imprisonment.

                                                    If you really want to understand his TOTAL thoughts on abortion may I suggest readinghis book Liberty Defined.

                                                    he talks about how abortion and the death penalty affect the nation psychologically on how we view others.

                                                    I happen to agree with him..

                                                    peace.

                                                    • 2 votes
                                                    #2.61 - Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:52 AM EST
                                                    DoctorNorm

                                                    Thanks. Ron Paul, a Texan, is opposed to the death penalty. Son-of-a-gun, there's a third thing I agree with him on. But what I don't understand is that if Ron Paul believes Abortion = Murder, what kind of jail term does he propose for such murderers? Because if he doesn't want jail for murderers, then he doesn't actually believe it's murder. And if he doesn't believe it's murder, then it becomes harder to defend his defense of government interference on individual liberty.

                                                    Peace upon you as well.

                                                      #2.62 - Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:54 AM EST
                                                      Marshall James

                                                      Abortion is a horrible issue...and I believe it is not done with a casual heart most of the time. I have been pro choice my entire life...and if you were to pin me down on it right now...I would choose prochoice..

                                                      but I also see his argument onthis....he makes some valid points....he just does...as with everythign.....if you listen to the man...and his explanation...it just makes sense.

                                                      If I had time I would find you the video where he said what I stated above...but I do not have the tiime.

                                                      I think he understands that abortion is a bit different in its intent...vs the murder of an individual on the street...and in a dictatorship he would treat it differently.

                                                      but again..this is not a federal issue...its a states issue....and we need to follow our laws...plain and simple....we have been ignoring our consitution for far too long....if an ammendment needs to be made...then make it...do not ignore the constitution and our laws...we need to have respect for our country.

                                                      • 1 vote
                                                      #2.63 - Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:00 AM EST
                                                      Lisafrequency

                                                      I found this reading out of Ron's last book "Liberty Defined" the chapter on Abortion. I think most people who are in touch with their heart of hearts would be persuaded by Ron's view. I am not sure of the name of the person doing the reading but they do have a nice clear voice:

                                                      http://youtu.be/wLa7BSwCaew

                                                      • 1 vote
                                                      #2.64 - Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:41 AM EST
                                                      Reply
                                                      Marshall James

                                                      Ron Paul is our last hope.....the war drums are beating.

                                                      obama is now trying to decrease the size of government....hell even democrats are talking like him now.....he is not only influencing the repubs...but the dems as well....and why is that?? because they are scared of him...and have to adapt to him or they will be obsolete.

                                                      he was second in both the republican and democrat primary in new hampshire....BOTH.

                                                      FREEDOM IS THE FUTURE.

                                                      make no mistake socrates............the future is freedom or we collapse as a society....no more of this democrat and republican authoritarian crap....no more increasing the size and power of government.....no more infringing upon the rights of the individual.

                                                      AMERICA IS INDIVIDUALS....and if you are violating the rights of individuals...you are violating AMERICA.

                                                      You cannot stop the message of freedom once the seed is planted.

                                                      and he planted it......and its growing......I dont know if Ron Paul will reap the fruits of his labor....but I know America will.

                                                      and for that we should all be grateful to him........for awakening those of us who were asleep.....for rekindling the fire of freedom in our souls. He has changed America.....he doesnt have to win the primary to be the winner....he already has won.

                                                      Ron Paul 2012

                                                      R3VOLUTION

                                                      • 7 votes
                                                      Reply#3 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:31 AM EST
                                                      weRdoomed

                                                      You have no idea what you are talking about.

                                                      • 10 votes
                                                      #3.1 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:48 AM EST
                                                      Ron Christman

                                                      Dear Marshall,

                                                      I won't ask you to read the Constitution or to try to understand the principles that our country was founded on.

                                                      I won't ask you to read and understand what is going on in the world today. I won't ask you to try to recognize what it will take for our country to survive in the global economy of the 21st century.

                                                      I'll just ask you to try to understand what the name of our country means. . . especially the first word of our name.

                                                      We are the United States of America.

                                                      Sincerely,

                                                      RC

                                                      • 6 votes
                                                      #3.2 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:44 AM EST
                                                      hugh b

                                                      incredible in its concept and naivete

                                                      • 2 votes
                                                      #3.3 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:54 AM EST
                                                      Marshall James

                                                      hugh

                                                      are you saying how incredible libertarianism is??

                                                      thanks for being postitive this time.

                                                      • 4 votes
                                                      #3.4 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:56 AM EST
                                                      hugh bExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

                                                      oh, Mensa Marshall, so sad...

                                                      such a big brain and no way to use it, good for you

                                                      i will not be positive in every post, I don't know anybody that is

                                                      and I'm sure your pats on the back are greatly appreciated because your unbelievable genius is obvious to all

                                                      i don't state my opinion because i'm looking for approval or an endorsement, of to satisfy you are anybody else

                                                      unlike you, I do it to engage and provide another point of view, I come to learn, unlike you with your massive Mensa Genius, I still have a lot to learn

                                                      • 1 vote
                                                      #3.5 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:25 PM EST
                                                      Marshall James

                                                      yes your comments on the troops a couple of days ago was proof you are not here to satisfy anyone......especially the people who volunteer for this country.

                                                      I have been on here for over two years...and it is and probably be for quite a long time..the most offensive post I have ever read on the vine.

                                                      thanks.

                                                      • 3 votes
                                                      #3.6 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:52 PM EST
                                                      Marshall James

                                                      oh and by the way...post 3.5 is a coh violation....reported.

                                                      you know....that mensa genius....I was able to see through your comment and see that you were being insulting...and not complimentary.

                                                      peace.

                                                      • 3 votes
                                                      #3.7 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:58 PM EST
                                                      Ed Wood

                                                      I won't ask you to read and understand what is going on in the world today. I won't ask you to try to recognize what it will take for our country to survive in the global economy of the 21st century.

                                                      The US won't be able to do that by strangling itself with expensive wars, debt, and arbitrary choices on which corporations and businesses will be winners and losers. That seems to be the plan of everyone except Paul.

                                                      • 4 votes
                                                      #3.8 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:04 PM EST
                                                      crazyrooster1946

                                                      Ok, the vote in NH made Ron Paul, second place winner! Does that not also make him second place loser?

                                                      Crap, just forget Ron Paul! James for President! Draft James for the good of the planet!

                                                        #3.9 - Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:45 PM EST
                                                        Ed Wood

                                                        The game has just started. In any case he is already influencing the other candidates, and possibly even Obama. Government was reduced under Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. If Ron Paul's and his follower's influence causes the same kind of action from the next President I'd still consider that a victory.

                                                        • 2 votes
                                                        #3.10 - Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:15 PM EST
                                                        Lisafrequency

                                                        I won't ask you to try to recognize what it will take for our country to survive in the global economy of the 21st century.

                                                        so does that mean we have to break our own middle class so we can compete globally?

                                                        I love this interview with D.L. Hughley and Ron Paul where they talk about bailouts and spending.

                                                        http://youtu.be/yhb9Vjs9zxE

                                                          #3.11 - Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:53 AM EST
                                                          Reply
                                                          CL1

                                                          Hmmm, lots to think about. I considered many of the negatives that you brought up, particularly:

                                                          Further, when one looks at his performance in the House of Representatives, one wonders how many allies he would find should he be elected. His foreign policy outlook is a bit naive, in an area where there are few, if any, "do-overs" or "take-backs" and thus radical changes would have, whether positive or negative, radical consequences.

                                                          It would seem that the contention would make for a disaster, and I don't think radical change is something they will let happen.

                                                          I, also, like that he stood up to the FED, and that he promotes hard money, and yes, there would be areas of concern for the populace with that.

                                                          Also, the open-borders issue, and the possible "use".. isn't something I had considered previously.

                                                          Actually, I was starting to lean more in his direction, but after further consideration, I see more negatives than positives... instead of a fairly negative-positive balanced scale. None of candidates are quite --Yes-- but, RP was closer to the 'hopey-changey' thing than I thought we've had in the past. Now... not so much.

                                                          • 4 votes
                                                          Reply#4 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:33 AM EST
                                                          Marshall James

                                                          well then...vote for romney or obama...it wont matter.

                                                          • 4 votes
                                                          #4.1 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:38 AM EST
                                                          CL1

                                                          No, thank you. I agree it wouldn't matter.

                                                          I had been looking at a possible Huntsman, but I only see one major area of agreement, rather than several that I see with RP. But, what made Huntsman interesting to me, was that his 'words' weren't typical, similar to RP.

                                                          • 2 votes
                                                          #4.2 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:43 AM EST
                                                          Marshall James

                                                          ok...but huntsman will be out after south carolina.....then what??

                                                          this race will get down to be between Paul and Romney....that is almost a guarantee at this point.

                                                          • 5 votes
                                                          #4.3 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:46 AM EST
                                                          CL1

                                                          If those were the choices, I would reconsider RP.

                                                          • 3 votes
                                                          #4.4 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:52 AM EST
                                                          Reply
                                                          steven-791492

                                                          Is Ron Paul Our Last Chance? NO

                                                          He is no chance at all.

                                                          • 13 votes
                                                          Reply#5 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:08 AM EST
                                                          hugh b

                                                          no, no, Steven, don't you know that Ron Paul is magic?

                                                          That as soon as he is elected, everything he stands for and believes will take effect immediately upon his taking the oath of office.

                                                          Obligations, rules, regulations, processes, laws, treaties, all of it goes out the window, because the Messiah of Libertarianism is now President.

                                                          See, its magic...

                                                          and we will have slavery again, women will be flogged for having abortions, the crime rate will sky rocket because anyone can do whatever they want, except those things Darth Paul doesn't want them to do...

                                                          • 4 votes
                                                          #5.1 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:57 AM EST
                                                          Reply
                                                          lifeisgood43

                                                          Paul is crazy. No way he should be Pres. He is a racist too and anti-women. A Paul Pres will lead to all kinds of rules and regulations drop if he had his way

                                                          • 13 votes
                                                          Reply#6 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:11 AM EST
                                                          Grisham

                                                          Interesting article, Soc. Out of all of the Conservative candidates, only two stick out as even remotely viable and that's RP and Huntsman. The others are completely looney IMO. Personally, I'd probably lean towards Huntsman myself, for much of the same reasons that CL outlined above. He's the only one of the candidates that said they might want to listen to scientists and base their decisions on facts rather than religious views unsupported by facts.

                                                          I must say, I've always been curious to see a Libertarian get into office. I don't think I'd want to see it happen where I live because I think the idea that we can take away almost all of the regulations and safe guards is a delusional one. But I've never seen it put to the test. I am a fan of smaller government as well.

                                                          RP has probably been the most consistent candidate (including Obama) of any of them. I sort of admire that. It's better than a wishy washy politician.

                                                          • 7 votes
                                                          Reply#7 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:18 AM EST
                                                          Marshall James

                                                          grisham

                                                          thanks for your respectful post.

                                                          it would be hard to institute a libertarian society into ours....what would need to be...before it can be attempted...is have a government that actually tried to protect the individual..

                                                          something that our government historically has failed to do....so it could grab more power.

                                                          peace

                                                          • 3 votes
                                                          #7.1 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:28 AM EST
                                                          Reply
                                                          Lisafrequency

                                                          One thing about Huntsman and Gingrich that many may not know is that they are not on the ballot in all 50 states. Delegates are key to winning and if you are not on the ballot in all 50 states you would have to win the all states you are on the ballot in. So far that is not happening for either of them.

                                                          RP has a record of voting against unconstitutional legislation for example the Patriot Act and NDAA.

                                                          People in states have the opportunity to call or write their states legislators and tell them how they want them to vote on bills that are being presented. We have an obligation to watch our local, state, and federal reps like a hawk. Part of the reason we are in the mess we are in is because of not paying attention. The people who were paying attention were labeled as nut jobs.

                                                          The people got behind Ron Paul in all 50 states to get legislation passed to audit the Federal Reserve. If nothing else his battle with the Fed should be looked at and understood. They are reason we are teetering on he verge of bankruptcy in this country. If people really understood it Ron Paul would be voted in for that alone. Because he is striking at the root. If the way our economy is is working for you and you want to continue in this direction then do not vote for Ron because he will stop the reckless out of control spending.

                                                          Many say they think his foreign policy is naive and that he would leave us defenseless. No way would he do that. He has military experience he has seen the horrors of war up close as a fight surgeon. Listen to what he says about foreign policy instead of Rush Limbagh who the rest of the media parrots. The media is owned by the BIG contractors who directly benefit from war they do not care that our children's blood and our treasure our being used to fight these senseless wars. This is why the media spends so much time asking him the stupid questions. They don't want the people to hear that he is strong on defense. We would still have all the technology,equipment, intelligence, and the man power to defend our country with Ron Paul as president. We just would not be inflicting ourselves on small 3 world countries for capital gain for BIG contractors. We would not be the policemen of the world. We would be friends with other nations and trade with them instead of forcing our will and over throwing their elected governments by the people of said countries and installing our selected dictators. I am tired of our country being known as the bully of the world to other countries.

                                                          It would seem that even Obama is starting to act like Ron Paul in some of his most recent actions and proposals. Even he knows that Ron Paul has the power of the people behind him with no lobbyist money behind him. The only special interest that I know that is behind him is the natural food and medicine people who are very very concerned about BIg Agra and big pharma taking over and in some cases trying to destroy our natural foods and medicines because they do not want to have competition or for you to have a choice in what you eat or the medicines you might prefer to use. This is a prime example of free markets being over taken by big corporation that own the congress , the senate and even the president.

                                                          If it weren't so scary I could almost laugh about the first lady promoting good health while her husband is installing Monsanto executives over the USDA and FDA. European countries are paying big fines because refuse US foods because they know they are almost all from GMO crops. Huntsman is working out deals with China to bring in highly toxic stuff to US consumers remember the pets who died from toxic foods and the toys with lead paint from china gee thanks Huntsman. Our regulations don't protect consumer they protect big corpo.

                                                          Another thing no other candidate is so brave as to stand up and speak truth to power. It brings tears to my eyes every time I think about or hear him speak in debates or if a media outlet lets him speak about the real issues.. yea he is a quirky older guy but you just have to get past the superficial and listen to what he says.

                                                          I am tired of it aren't you? Vote Ron Paul if freedom, peace, health ect are important to you. If not vote for anyone else.
                                                          Here is a poll asking the rest of the world who they would vote for in the Republican primary

                                                          http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/

                                                          • 7 votes
                                                          Reply#8 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:24 AM EST
                                                          Marshall James

                                                          great post lisa

                                                          its interesting..if you listen to the debates of 08 on there is laughter whenever he speaks....sounds like from the moderators....but not sure....but laughs here and there.

                                                          but who is laughing now...he is shaping our country like no other.....republicans are changing....democrats are even acting like him now.

                                                          you are right..he does have the people...and they know that...so they are changing so they do not become obsolete.

                                                          also notice...that whenever there is a question on the Constitution they always turn to him??? Mitt is the most obvious....he just defers to him.

                                                          he is the most significant politician in the last 40 years in my opinion.

                                                          • 6 votes
                                                          #8.1 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:34 AM EST
                                                          Reply
                                                          Independent.mind

                                                          Do the followers of Ron Paul understand all of his plans? This guy and his son have Very racist beliefs. They also want to end
                                                          Essential departments of the government and tear out the infrastructure that makes us a 1st world country!!. Paul supporters you can't be that stupid. These idiots listen to the ' legalize prostitution and marijuana' talk and start supporting him. Intelligent voters research all issues and plans the candidate has for the country Look into it morons, I mean Paul supporters.

                                                          • 5 votes
                                                          Reply#9 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:58 AM EST
                                                          baddestbob

                                                          i used to like ron paul, but now i have come to believe that he is a late 19th or early 20th century man with solutions to match. i am also tired of his pronouncements about the government enslaving us. the government takes our money in the form of taxes and uses it to benefit us. now in a country with a population as large as ours, people are going to disagree about how that money is spent. not one program that requires government funding will be popular with every single one of us. the real enslavement will be when we have a government that answers only to the wealthy at the expense of all others.

                                                          • 5 votes
                                                          Reply#10 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:06 AM EST
                                                          lifeisgood43

                                                          Me too tired of Paul bashing a Gov't all of the time that he wants to led.

                                                          • 4 votes
                                                          #10.1 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:29 AM EST
                                                          Reply
                                                          hugh b

                                                          i'm not bashing paul, i'm taking exception to the idea that because he gets elected everything changes, it is idiotic

                                                          change takes decades, and some of the changes have unintended consequences, then you have to change again, sometimes to enhance those consequences other times to undo them

                                                          the short term, instant gratification mentality, of the American people is naive, childish, and moronic

                                                          • 3 votes
                                                          Reply#11 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:53 AM EST
                                                          Marshall James

                                                          changes do take decades.....but consider this...no one was talking about the federal reserve 5 years ago...NO ONE...neither party...no its on a national stage.

                                                          republicans are taking points of his.

                                                          now obama is talkingabout getting rid of departments and consolidating them.

                                                          he is changing our society......and you dont see how he is doing it.

                                                          sure it takes time...and it will take 50 years....but we will regain the freedom that we have lost.

                                                          the short term, instant gratification mentality, of the American people is naive, childish, and moronic

                                                          you are right...and that is what he wants to change...is the government that breeds that mentality.

                                                          peace.

                                                          • 5 votes
                                                          #11.1 - Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:01 AM EST
                                                          Reply
                                                          BD Styers

                                                          So, is Ron Paul our last chance?

                                                          Yes.

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          Reply#12 - Mon May 14, 2012 7:47 PM EDT
                                                          Lisafrequency

                                                          yes

                                                          • 2 votes
                                                          #12.1 - Mon May 14, 2012 9:26 PM EDT
                                                          Socrates1

                                                          Thank you both....I've been lying awake nights wondering if anyone would please answer the question.....:)

                                                          Seriously, thank you.

                                                            #12.2 - Mon May 14, 2012 10:38 PM EDT
                                                            BD Styers

                                                            Time to go to Disney World!

                                                              #12.3 - Mon May 14, 2012 10:42 PM EDT
                                                              Socrates1

                                                              Allll right...it's been awhile...

                                                                #12.4 - Tue May 15, 2012 4:59 AM EDT
                                                                Reply
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